Initiative

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I owe you all many thanks. Last week I showed off an idea for a new Dungeons & Dragons fifth edition initiative system inspired by  a new Unearthed Arcana article put out by Mike Mearls on Greyhawk Initiative and Rob Schwalb’s incredible game Shadow of the Demon Lord. Many of you provided excellent feedback. Among the top criticisms of this system were….

1. Giving bonus actions weight in the system unfairly gives monsters an edge, since they rarely have bonus action options.
2. There needs to be more clarification on how things like legendary actions, traps, and spells that end “at the end of your next turn” work.
3. I should provide a few more options to keep initiative variable for those who want it.
4. This system should definitely be faster than re-rolling initiative each round.
5. People seem very concerned about how the Alertness feat would work. This isn’t covered in my updated core system, since feats are optional, but I do cover it with some variants.

So with those thoughts in mind, I present the 2.0 version….

Shadow of the Demon Lord Initiative in D&D 2.0

I’ve proposed a super simple version of Shadow of the Demon Lord  for 5e initiative in a previous blog post and a fuller version in another. Here’s a revised, fuller version:

At the start of each round of combat, each creature declares if taking a fast or slow turn. Creatures do not declare what, specifically, it is going to do during that turn. The following describes each type of turn:

• Fast Turn. You can take only a an action or move your speed. No matter what you choose to do, you can take a bonus action in addition.
• Slow Turn. You can take a bonus action, action, and move your speed.

The round of combat then proceeds as follows:

1. Fast turn phase
   1. Player characters taking a fast turn act.
   2. Monsters taking a fast turn act.
2. Slow turn phase
   1. Player characters taking a slow turn act.
   2. Monsters taking a slow turn act.

Player characters and monsters in each turn phase decide among themselves the order in which they act. If player characters cannot determine an order, the DM determines it. This could also be determined by allowing an opposed Dexterity check.

Creatures that are surprised take no actions during the first round of combat as normal.

Looking At Specific Cases in Initiative

The following specific cases are handled in these specific ways:

• Events that occur on initiative count 20, such as a legendary creature’s lair actions, happen before the fast turn phase. Events that occur on initiative count 19 – 6 happen between the fast turn phase and slow turn phase. Events that occur on initiative count 5 – 0 happen after the slow turn phase.
• Legendary actions can occur after any creature other than the legendary creature takes its turn and recharge at the start of a round, instead of at the start of the legendary creature’s turn.
• Saving throws, spells, and effects that take place or end “at the start of” or “at the end of” a creature’s next turn instead take place or end at the start of or the end of the turn phase of the same type in the next round. For example, if a wizard casts chill touch against a goblin during the slow turn phase, that goblin cannot heal until the start of the next round’s slow turn phase. If a creature is frightened by a dragon’s Frightful Presence during the fast turn phase, the frightened creature can repeat its saving throw at the end of each fast turn phase.

Variants: Changing Monster Order

Allowing players to always go first means monsters die quicker, which also speeds up play, but for some groups, this isn’t dangerous or variable enough. Two variants below adjust combat to keep it even more random for you.

Variant: Start Old School

At the start of combat, roll for initiative. Each creature in each turn phase acts in the order of its initiative. For example, at the start of combat Bob the wizard rolls a 5, Jill the cleric rolls a 10, Amy the ranger rolls a 15, Sam the paladin rolls an 16, the bugbear rolls a 12, and the goblin rolls a 7. Jill, Amy, and the bugbear all take a fast turn, meaning they act first in this order: Amy (15), bugbear (12), and Jill (10). Then the slow turn phase proceeds as follows: Sam (16), goblin (7), and Bob (5).

Variant: Side Initiative

You can roll for side initiative at the start of each round (this is discussed in the Dungeon Master’s Guide). If the players win, they go first in each turn category. If the monsters win, they go first in each category.

Still Looking for Feedback…

Let me know what you think in the comments below!

If you like what you’re reading please follow me on Twitter, like World Builder Blog on Facebook, check out my podcasts, find my products on the DMs Guild, tell your friends about the blog, and/or leave me a comment and let me know you think. Thanks!

Just a quick note to let you know that we can meet at Gen Con. Get your FREE tickets to the DSPN Q&A panel to meet Rudy Basso, Celeste Conowitch, Brittany Quintero, Vegas Lancaster, and more of your favorite podcast people. I’m only at Gen Con for one night, so this is the best way to meet my friends and me.

NOTE: THIS INITIATIVE SYSTEM HAS EVOLVED.

Initiative is the word this week thanks to a new Unearthed Arcana article put out by Mike Mearls on Greyhawk Initiative. Mike’s new system for fifth edition Dungeons & Dragons is exploding with possibility and randomness. It breaks initiative out of its normal cycle and changes up the order of characters each round based on their actions and a roll of the dice. I would very much love to try it! It’s reminiscent of the old speed factor initiative found in the Dungeon Master’s Guide.

While the system looks great, I’m not sure it’s right for my group. First, it requires the players discuss a plan before each round of combat. My own group could do this for hours and turn our RPG into a tactical war game, making a 10-minute battle last 100. I like to cover a little more story than that if I can in our limited sessions.

The system is also a bit restrictive in that when your turn comes up, you can’t decide to take an action not covered by your initiative roll (so if the cleric decided to attack, but the fighter was just critically hit by an ogre, the cleric can’t get cast a spell to heal the fighter until the following round, since the cleric already declared he would attack when the initiative was rolled). I understand the appeal of this restriction and it makes sense mechanically, but I don’t think my regular group would enjoy that restriction. We won’t know until we try though!

This got me thinking about the initiative system I enjoy in another game, Shadow of the Demon Lord, and how I can apply its initiative system to fifth edition D&D. Take a look at the idea below and let me know what you think!

Shadow of the Demon Lord Initiative in D&D

I’ve proposed a super simple version of Shadow of the Demon Lord  for 5e initiative in a previous blog post. Here’s a fuller version:

At the start of each round of combat, each creature declares if taking a fast, medium, or slow turn. The following describes each turn category:

• Fast Turn. You take only a bonus action, action, or move your speed.
• Medium Turn. You take any combination of two of the following: bonus action, action, or move your speed.
• Slow Turn. You take a bonus action, action, and move your speed.

The round of combat then proceeds as follows:

1. Player characters taking a fast turn.
2. Monsters taking a fast turn.
3. Player characters taking a medium turn.
4. Monsters taking a medium turn.
5. Player characters taking a slow turn.
6. Monsters taking a slow turn.

Player characters and monsters in each turn category decide among themselves the order in which they act. If player characters cannot determine an order, the DM determines it. This could also be determined by allowing the character with the higher Dexterity score to go first or an opposed Dexterity check.

If a creature decides to change the type of turn it wants to take during a round, they can change to a categories at anytime, provided the creature has not already acted that round and the turn category has not already been completed for the round.

Creatures that are surprised take no actions during the first round of combat as normal.

Variant: Side Initiative

Allowing players to always go first means monsters die quicker, which also speeds up play, but for some groups, this isn’t dangerous enough. If you want to change up the player/monster dynamic, you can roll for side initiative at the start of each round (this is discussed in the Dungeon Master’s Guide). If the players win, they go first in each turn category. If the monsters win, they go first in each category.

Analysis

This method encourages characters and monsters to take simpler turns for the sake of getting to hit first which also speeds up play at the table. If also breaks out of the cyclical nature of normal D&D initiative, though is not as varied as what Mike Mearls proposed. I’m interested to hear what people think. Sound off in the comments below!

If you like what you’re reading please follow me on Twitter, like World Builder Blog on Facebook, check out my podcasts, find my products on the DMs Guild, tell your friends about the blog, and/or leave me a comment and let me know you think. Thanks!